— Shiina Okamoto, welcome to the GTO Lab podcast.
Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. It’s good to be here today.
— I’d like to get into your background a little bit as a poker player. How did you decide to go pro, when did you decide to become a professional, and what went into that decision?
Well, I studied architecture back in university, but after graduating, I got a job completely unrelated to architecture. I worked in sales at a foreign investment bank for about 10 years. I sold stocks, bonds, and various financial products, that kind of thing.
So for those 10 years, I mostly just worked in sales. The company itself was wonderful, but working in sales was really draining for me. Truth be told, I don’t have much interest in finance either, but I didn’t really have any other passion, so I decided to just continue to grind it out for 10 years.
However, I constantly felt worn down, and that my life shouldn’t be this way. But ultimately, I had no other way to make money, so I stuck with it.
Then, for better or worse, my department’s business gradually got worse until I got a generous offer to voluntarily resign with a good severance package. Since I already had a strong desire to quit, and I really wanted to play poker, even though there was no money in it yet, without really worrying about the consequences, I agreed and quit.
That was about two years ago. At that time, I had only been playing poker for a few short years. After quitting, though, I didn’t look for another job at all. I just wanted to study poker every day, so I did just that.
I did nothing but study for months. I think there was a six-month period where I really just hit the books, doing nothing else. After that, you know the rest of the story. I finished as runner-up in the 2023 WSOP Ladies Event. Then in 2024, I won the next one, and went back-to-back by winning again this year. Since then, I was also able to pick up sponsors as well. Somehow, after all that, I’ve reached a point where I can finally make a good living through poker. Anyways, that’s my background.
— I know the American and Japanese poker worlds up until this point have not intersected in a very big way. Not that America is the only place for poker knowledge, but where were you studying, and where were you picking up other poker knowledge from pros?
Yeah. Basically, I was able to build a study-focused community with my friends. We run study sessions online via Discord. We use GTO software online as well. After studying the various GTO lines, we discuss and verify how the population deviates from equilibrium, and we study how to exploit those deviations.
As you might know, online gambling is not allowed in Japan, so we can’t study like others by grinding massive numbers of hands online. That part actually makes the studying quite difficult for us. Also, there aren’t really any major MTT coaching sites based in Japan for us to use to study.
And as for overseas sites, I can’t actually speak English very well. I think, also, since most Japanese players might not speak English very fluently, it’s really difficult for people to use them. So basically, the study environment isn’t perfect. But with study groups and friends, it’s possible to study a bit.
— So you got second in the WSOP Ladies Event, and then you won it the following year, and then you won it the following year.
And professional poker players will tell you that poker’s not luck, it’s skill. But we also mean it’s a reasonable amount of skill and some amount of luck. How do you win a thousand-plus person tournament two years in a row after getting second in it?
Yes. Well, of course, I think there was obviously a fair bit of luck involved. It didn’t really come into play so much when I got second place the year before. But after that, during my win last year and then again this year, I was already quite well known in the Ladies field.
This led to opponents who would think, “She’s a good player, so she will definitely bluff me here.” Or conversely, “She’s a good player, so I want to play some hands against her,” and they would try to trick me or bluff me.
Everyone tried to adjust to me in various ways, but I believe I was very good at counter-adjusting to whatever they did. That is the first thing that really was an advantage, and one that was pretty unique to me.
As for the second way, many women are quite emotional people, myself included. So when we were playing over the course of four days, I really started to understand quite well how emotions affect play.
Especially once we got to day three or day four, when the field is down to under 100 remaining and the end is getting close, or even at the final table, you can notice people get extremely nervous. Generally, women aren’t as used to playing poker at that level.
When that tension hits, some people become very aggressive while others become very passive. It varies by person. I sort of intuitively understood how those reactions change based on nationality, appearance, or age. I think the experience I built up over three years really came alive and gave me an advantage there.
And this isn’t just because it’s a Ladies field. The final table, especially at the WSOP, is a place where everyone gets incredibly nervous. But having experienced it three times is really huge.
I really understood how to keep my feelings stable while playing at the final table. For example, I try not to stand up from my seat even when I’m all-in. I feel like if I stand up, I start thinking it might all end right here.
It’s fine if I’m behind in equity. But if I stand when I’m ahead, it’s usually because I’m thinking I might lose here. If I lose after that, I can’t maintain my mindset for the rest of the play.
Also, there is a lot of cheering from the rail, but if you react to it too much, it can ruin your own play. Being accustomed to playing in that unique final table environment was the third big reason.
— When you speak about reading and understanding the minds of your competitors, it brings me to the topic of emotional intelligence and social intelligence, the parts of the game that you’re not going to see in a solver, but that are very important, especially at the midstakes and low stakes.
But I’m thinking a lot about what it takes to understand what’s going on in your competitors’ heads, especially given that the vast majority of them are from very different cultures. What is that process like for you?
Yeah, going back to your earlier question, I think you were asking something like how I actually read people’s emotions. By engaging in conversation right there at the table, I try to become very conscious of exactly what they are thinking about me, because I’m known in the field now.
You get different reactions. For example, with more competitive, strong-willed women, I can often sense this intense will from them, like, “She’s last year’s champion, so I am absolutely not going to lose to her no matter what.” I can just feel that vibe in the air while we’re chatting.
On the other hand, other people might think, “Oh, she’s the champion. That’s scary. I’d better not fight back or get involved.” And they end up taking much quieter, more passive actions against me.
But you can really tell the difference between those calm, passive players and the ones with strong personalities just by talking to them. While we’re having these conversations, I’m essentially using that time to figure out their character and categorize them.
— So you like to engage in some trickery yourself and try to play head games with your opponents.
Right. Although I kind of want to keep my actions more secret.
— Do you play games outside of poker, anything that involves that metagame type of strategic thinking?
Yeah. For about five years before I started playing poker, I took up playing a lot of board games as a hobby. Games like Settlers of Catan and a few other games in that same genre, where you really have to think and use your head, are the games that I really enjoyed playing.
— I have it on good authority that Stephen Chidwick and Daniel Dvoress are both excellent Catan players, if you’re ever looking for a game.
Outside of board games, what are you passionate about aside from poker? What hobbies or interests drive you?
Well, I don’t really think I have any other than the board games I mentioned earlier. And poker. There’s not much else. That’s how much I love poker.
— When you don’t have a live tournament series, what does a week in the life of Shiina look like right now in terms of how you allocate your time between studying, watching streams, and any other forms of getting better? Do you currently work with a coach?
It’s a little complicated, and I can’t really go into it in depth. Generally speaking, I have tournaments where I work as an ambassador, and I also have times when I’m playing in major events or doing media work. But whenever I have a completely free day with nothing scheduled, I’m usually running study groups or just grinding out study sessions on my own.
Regarding a coach, technically, I don’t actually have a full-time coach, but there is someone I always reach out to when I have questions. There’s a Japanese player who is an official coach. I don’t exactly book him for full lessons, but I do ask him questions on a spot basis to go over specific hands.
— Going back to a topic that will probably get me in trouble, based in America, what do you see as advantages or disadvantages of being a woman in poker?
Read ReadAs for advantages, honestly, I don’t think there are many. Maybe exploiting the stereotype that women don’t bluff could be one, but I think there are far more disadvantages to deal with.
There are actually many negatives. For one, women generally lack physical stamina compared to men. So especially in long grinds like the WSOP, toward the end, our concentration tends to really drop off. I actually try not to enter tournaments from the very start unless it’s the Ladies Event or one where I really want to build EV early, because I know I’ll get burned out in the second half.
Also, as I said before, I believe women are inevitably biologically more emotional than men. I feel this strongly even when playing in Ladies Events. Even if it’s just a standard loss in the game, it can turn into emotional irritation.
Often, players project negative personal emotions onto their opponents. I think poker performance suffers a lot because of this kind of tilt. I think it’s biologically unavoidable, but it’s certainly not an edge. I know I have that tendency too, so I try really hard to manage my mental game.
— So let me play devil’s advocate. Generally speaking, and I’ve never looked at research on this, so I’m talking out of my ass here, but women, from what I’ve heard and from my experience, are often more emotionally intelligent.
While they may be more emotional, that might also help them be more in touch with other people’s emotions. As you were describing, reading your opponents’ minds.
If women put in the same volume of play as men against the same number of players, I think it would probably even out. On top of being emotional, the reality is that most women just don’t play poker as regularly.
So, of course, at the top level, where that distinction doesn’t exist, when you look at the average player, women generally aren’t as skilled simply because they haven’t put in the same amount of volume.
I think being able to read emotions like that is something you only really learn after experiencing those specific spots over and over again. I don’t actually think women have some natural ability to read people just because we are emotional. I think it really just comes down to experience.
— I’ve coached a few women in my career, and beyond that, I’ve overheard conversations from women of all different skill levels, including some I view as the best in the world.
They very often seem to have a perception about how other people will think they are underaggressive, usually not bluffing enough. People will think that a woman won’t bluff, or won’t bluff enough.
Then occasionally, if she’s caught bluffing once or twice, people will think, “Oh, she’s crazy. This woman will do anything.” Male players tend to put their female opponents into one of two boxes and take a very simplistic approach to them.
Yeah, I definitely think that happens. People remember. But for me personally, even if I wasn’t famous or even if they didn’t remember me, friends always tell me I have a strong face. I look kind of intense. So even in a first meeting where they definitely don’t know who I am, oddly enough, my bluffs get caught a lot.
So speaking for myself, I think the women who really face a disadvantage here are the ones who look very quiet, the ones who look like they would absolutely never bluff. If they do it just once, they get remembered because they are women. And if it gets exposed that, oh, she’s actually capable of bluffing, that becomes a huge disadvantage for them.
But for me, I don’t think there is much of a gap between my first impression and my actual play style. So in my case, it doesn’t really change much. I think the problem really arises when there is a disconnect, a gap between the image men hold of a woman and her actual play.
— Currently, I would say we have one very consistent regular female high roller poker player in Kristen Foxen. Sosia Jiang is also an excellent player who plays from time to time and is very well respected in the high rollers.
Do you think we’re going to be seeing an influx of female poker players in the high rollers and super high rollers anytime soon?
I don’t know, perhaps, but I don’t really think so.
— What are some of your goals in poker?
When it comes to specific results, there is always luck involved. So I don’t really set concrete goals like wanting to win a specific tournament. I simply want to become stronger.
I did manage to win back-to-back Ladies titles with a bit of luck on my side, but because it is a Ladies field, honestly, I believe the skill level is significantly lower than the open fields with men. So I want to compete in those mixed fields and high rollers.
Just like Kristen Foxen, I don’t want to just be seen as strong for a woman. I want to become a player who is genuinely respected as strong, even when I’m battling in open fields.
— The Japanese poker scene seems to be emerging in a pretty big way. At this year’s World Series of Poker, I saw more Japanese players than I can ever remember seeing in the past. Can you tell me a bit about what the landscape looks like for poker in Japan?
Honestly, I can’t say for sure exactly how the industry will develop from here. But looking at just the last two or three years, the number of Japanese poker players has absolutely exploded.
The biggest reason for this is definitely Masato Yokosawa. He is a massively famous poker YouTuber here in Japan. Because of his influence, the player base just grew massively in a very short time.
Also, since I was fortunate enough to win a bracelet last year as the first Japanese woman to do so, I think that specific event really became a trigger. It encouraged a lot more female players to start playing the game too. So the numbers are really way up.
I’m not one hundred percent sure what happens next, but do you know the Japanese economic magazine called Nikkei Business? I think it was Nikkei Business. Anyway, in that magazine they published a list of trends for the year 2025, and out of everything on that list, poker was actually ranked number seven. That really shows just how much the poker boom in Japan is heating up right now.
— I’m wondering if you feel any pressure being an ambassador for poker in Japan, if any of the attention is unwelcome, or not what you’re looking for. Basically, is there a dark side to second place, first place, first place in a country where poker is rising in popularity so quickly?
Regarding all the attention, of course it makes me happy. Achieving the back-to-back win, even having a second-place finish the year before that, really is a miracle.
On Twitter, or X, I see some people saying things like, “See, this proves poker isn’t just luck. This proves it is a game of pure skill.” I’m really happy they intend that as a compliment. It’s nice to hear. But the reality is that this game has absolutely huge variance. There is a massive element of luck involved.
I really just happened to run very well. I hit a great probability to win back-to-back. That’s the truth. So I don’t want people to look at my results and have a distorted perception of what this game actually is, or think it’s easy or that it could happen to them so simply.
Fast-Fire Questions for Shiina Okamoto
— I’ll ask very simple, quick questions.
You’re a tourist going to Japan for the first time. What one food must you try?
– I love shabu shabu!
— When you’re in Las Vegas, what is the worst thing about being in Vegas? What is the best thing about being in Vegas?
Well, I think the best part, both before but especially after winning the Ladies Events, is just walking around the streets of Las Vegas, even away from the poker venues and casinos. Random people will come up to me on the street and congratulate me. It makes me feel a little bit like a celebrity.
As for the bad part, it would definitely be the food. It doesn’t suit my taste, and it’s so expensive. I think it’s about three times higher than in Japan.
— You are heads up for the WSOP Main Event. Who is the last person you want as your opponent?
I guess I would want it to be against a female player, a very amateur female player.
There’s just so many good professional players. I wouldn’t want to play against any of them. I think I would just go all in every hand.
— Tomorrow morning you wake up and you will have gained 100 hours of studying. Your brain will be just as if you studied 100 hours of this poker topic.
I think 25% remaining preflop, especially the small blind open ranges and how the big blind should construct their ranges to defend against the small blind open.
— Tomorrow, your poker career is over. What would be your next dream job?
I would be a stock trader.
Shiina Okamoto Breaks Down WSOP Hands
— All right. Shiina, are you ready to do a hand history breakdown?
I’ve got a hand teed up here from the 2025 victory.
- Shiina: 12M
- Heather Alcorn: 2.1M
- Hegedus at 1.5M.
- Huynh: 3.3M
- Hagberg: 7.5M
- Veronika: 875K
— You’re going to go ahead and open the on the button into a couple of smaller stacks.
I’m if you were going to play any folds on the button, and if you considered shoving, or maybe felt that going all in preflop didn’t maximize your edge against these players.
Well, I think the main reason is the presence of that short stack. But honestly, even if I held something like ace-jack offsuit here, I absolutely would not have shoved.
The reason is a bit tricky to put into words, but the field here isn’t exactly GTO-optimized because there is a short stack. Theoretically, the other players, the small blind and big blind, should be folding a huge portion of their range due to ICM. But I figured many people at this table probably don’t understand that dynamic. So even if I jam here, I didn’t think I would generate enough fold equity. My hand wasn’t exactly a monster either.
— When I watched this back, it looked like both the small blind player and the big blind player were really playing to win. They seemed like they were not going to respect ICM. And that’s what we see here, with Heather Alcorn taking maybe the least likely route and calling your raise.
Fold looks like the standard play. Maybe somebody going for the win might shove all in over a wide button open, but she goes ahead and calls.
On the flop of , Alcorn ( ) leads 300K into a 600K pot.
— Tell me your thoughts as you remember them at this stage.
Honestly, I was actually thinking it might be fine to just fold right there on the flop. I had been at the same table as this player since the day before, and I had a specific read. If she had top pair or better, she would always donk bet. It didn’t matter what the board texture was.
So looking at the small blind calling range, which includes hands like pocket fives and pocket sixes, I felt pretty strongly that I was currently behind. However, I did have a backdoor flush draw. And there was one other factor. When you get to the final table, players change. The emotional pressure shifts their game. Someone who never bluffed before might suddenly start firing.
So I decided to peel one off and call, mostly just in case. But deep down, I kind of wanted to fold immediately.
— So you do go ahead and call. And I’m not going to blame you for that. I wouldn’t have even conceived of folding there. To me, call and raise are kind of the only options. But as you said, you’d been playing with Alcorn.
We get an on the turn, and she’s going to go for another bet, dropping in 500K.
— Tell me about your thoughts at this stage.
Like I said earlier, up until this point, her donk leads had always been strictly for value. So even on the flop, I figured I was likely behind. But I called just to cover that small chance that maybe her mental game had cracked and she decided to start bluffing.
But then that turn sizing, it was big. When she fires a size like that, there is absolutely zero bluff in her range. I knew I was beat. So honestly, I folded without really hesitating at all.
— One hell of a fold you do end up making there. That was not what I expected. But I’m going to turn on the sound here to bring us back to a previous conversation.
So you lay it down. You immediately smile at Alcorn, and then let’s hear what you say. Did you say pocket? Were you asking if she had a pocket pair?
Yeah, she said it was stronger. Much better. Much better.
— Let me tee up the next one. We’re further along now. We’re three-handed.
- Shiina Okamoto: 15M
- Heather: 4M
- Hagberg: 8.3M
— You opt to limp in the small blind. Any thoughts behind that?
Well, Heather only has something like 20 big blinds behind. I figured she was the type that, if she had an ace, she would have just shoved all in. On the flip side, I didn’t think she would try to isolate me wide if I just limped.
So, I decided to adjust my strategy and handle it by limping.
— Heather checks with . The flop comes .
You go for one big blind, and Heather goes ahead and calls that one big blind.
Any decision between checking and betting one big blind?
As I mentioned, if she held an ace, I was fairly certain she would have just jammed all in preflop.
So I ruled that out. She could have a queen, but fundamentally, I felt I was ahead of her range most of the time. And since she wasn’t the type of player to fire off many bluffs, I decided to just make a protection bet.
— We get a on the turn, and you opt to check. Heather bets half pot here, and then you take a moment and jack it up to 1.4 million. Pretty badass play.
Can you tell me how you arrived at this decision? Were you planning to check-raise, or was there something about Heather’s bet that pushed you toward it?
Honestly, I really didn’t think she would bet into me here. I had already ruled out the ace. And as for a queen, based on my previous reads, I didn’t think she was aggressive enough to bet that either. But looking at this specific board texture with all these broadway cards out there, I felt pretty strongly that she just couldn’t have two pair or better.
So I decided to check-raise the turn. I knew there was a decent chance she wouldn’t fold immediately. But I calculated that she had almost zero hands that could call a shove on the river. So my plan was locked in. Check-raise the turn and barrel the river. Since hands like two broadways would have jammed preflop, I kept her range to one pair and knew firing both streets would fold her out.
— And after some deliberation, it goes exactly as you planned, with Alcorn quite understandably throwing the into the muck. That was a pretty nice pot.
GipsyTeam Editor – If you want to watch the hands that Shiina analyzed, they're part of the video below.
- Hand #1 (Shiina with ): at 1:25:54
- Hand #2 (Shiina with ): at 3:07:05
— Are there any topics you’d like to talk about before we close the podcast?
Well, it’s not really a topic I want to talk about specifically, but I actually have a question for you.
Here in Japan, I’ve never really heard of a poker player hiring a dedicated mental coach. But I’ve heard stories that overseas pros use them quite a bit. I feel like the importance of the mental game is probably a bit undervalued here in Japan. So I’m curious, do top pros overseas actually spend significant money on that? Is that something they actively invest in?
— That’s a great question. I’m not a mental game coach, so I can’t speak for them directly. But it is very popular. Life as a professional poker player, or really anyone who plays poker seriously, involves so many swings. It’s very difficult to know how seriously we should take our results. You can make a great call and lose, or make a questionable call and win.
Because there isn’t always harmony between results and how well we played, it can be very hard on the psyche. For a lot of people, mental game coaching is about disentangling results from self-worth. It’s about learning how to be proud of yourself when you think you played well, even if the outcome was bad. And on the other side, staying constructively critical when something works out but maybe wasn’t the best decision.
A lot of it is digging around in your own mind to understand the traps you fall into. Poker creates very specific psychological pressures. When things go poorly, especially in tournaments, they can go poorly for a very long time. Mental health can deteriorate if you’re not careful.
So for many players, it’s about finding healthy ways to motivate yourself during the dark stretches when you’re not winning anything. It’s also about having a fair assessment of yourself. Some people naturally feel entitled and think they deserve better. Others are extremely self-critical and treat themselves harshly. Neither approach is healthy.
We control very little as poker players, especially as tournament players, day to day or week to week. Understanding how poker messes with your brain helps a lot. Mental game coaches can also help with focus, attention, and nerves. Some players struggle to concentrate for long periods. Others get extremely nervous in specific situations. Those are all things mental game work can help with.
Thank you.
— So the last question I ask every guest, and I forgot to text you this earlier, is for three recommendations.
They can be anything. A book, food, a movie, a habit. Anything you think our audience might get something out of.
Not specifically for poker, but I think sleeping well, eating well, and believing in your own luck are important.