Cary Katz: Business Success, PokerGo, Health & Taking Losses

— You’ve really done a lot, Cary — not just building tournament series, but also a platform for poker content. And on top of that, you’re one of the most successful recreational players ever, with over $40 million in live tournament cashes. That’s insane. Do you play much cash these days?

"I haven’t played cash in years. I just don’t really have the desire anymore. I got the tournament bug — that’s what I prefer. It’s just a hobby for me now."

— Sure. Still, it’s an impressive poker résumé. But honestly, what impresses me even more is your impact — the business side of it all. That’s something I’m trying to highlight more on this channel. But yeah, people can at least appreciate the $40 million in cashes — that’s no joke.

"Well, thank you."

— How did you create a business with a billion-dollar turnover?

"When I was 29, I started a company called College Loan Corporation. It almost wiped me out financially in the beginning, but we eventually turned the corner around the end of the first year.

In that first year, we only did about $20 million in loans, which wasn’t even close to what we needed to cover expenses. Then, in year two, everything just exploded — we jumped from $20 million to $780 million, and eventually we hit $3 billion in student loans. It took off fast.

I got lucky, honestly. In business — like in poker or anything else — it’s not always the smartest person who succeeds. You’ve got to keep grinding, stay positive, and accept that you’ll fail a lot along the way. I happened to be in the right industry at the right time, and it turned into a very successful company. Looking back, I’d say I’m a much better businessman now than I was back then.

Still, that run required a ton of luck. But I’m proud of what we built — not just the numbers, but the fact that we shared the wealth. We created around 75 millionaires within the company. College Loan Corporation is still around today in Las Vegas. I stepped down as CEO in 2013, and now it’s 100% employee-owned. It feels good knowing I passed the torch and the company continues without me."

— Sounds like you had the right ingredients for success even early on — the team, the drive, the work ethic, even if the results didn’t come immediately.

"Exactly. When you’re starting a business, that’s when you’re working the hardest. You wake up at 3 a.m. worrying about running out of money. I remember that vividly.

And at that time, we had our fifth child, so it was risky. I didn’t expect to put so much personal money into the business — I thought I’d be risking some, not everything. But it worked out in the end."

— I’m curious though — what changed between the $20 million and $780 million years? And do you see any parallels between that and poker?

"What happened was, at first, we were focused on loans for parents, and those were smaller, more complicated, and not that profitable. Then I realized that during the off-season — after school started — we needed another product to sell. That’s when we introduced federal consolidation loans.

These allowed students to roll all their existing loans into one, lower their interest rate, and stretch out payments. There was huge pent-up demand for that. People had loans from undergrad and grad school, multiple payments, and we gave them a simple way to consolidate everything.

I didn’t expect it to blow up the way it did, but it turned out to be the right product at the right time — and there wasn’t much competition yet. Plus, I had a great sales team. I wasn’t great at managing tech or operations early on, but when you have strong sales and steady revenue, you can fix those other problems later."

— Sounds kind of similar to what happened later with PokerGO, right? Because after you stepped down from College Loan Corporation in 2013, that’s when you started getting bored.

"Exactly. That’s when I started PokerGO — really just as a passion project. That’s when I really started playing a lot of poker. I suddenly had time — too much time, honestly — and I didn’t have enough to do. So, I just dove in and started playing everything: tournaments, events, whatever was running.

Then one day, it just hit me. I thought, “Look, there’s a Golf Channel — why isn’t there a Poker Channel?” Poker consistently gets good viewership. It made total sense to me that there should be a central hub for poker content. That’s where Poker Central came from — which, of course, evolved into PokerGO.

We launched in 2015, and it’s grown massively since then. We went from practically no viewership to over five billion minutes watched. Today, PokerGO is the world’s largest poker content company.

That said, I’ve put way more money into it than I ever expected. So, one word of advice for anyone thinking about doing a passion project — be careful. Passion projects can get very expensive."

— So passion projects are worth pursuing, as long as you keep your head on straight?

"I’ve had a lot of fun building PokerGO. It’s finally going to be profitable, but it’s been a grind. I’ve learned a lot.

When I started, I had zero media experience. Jumping into an industry that competitive — streaming, broadcasting, content licensing — that was pretty naïve of me. But I got lucky again. We’ve built a strong team, and now we’re running efficiently.

We produce around 100 live days of poker per year, and we’ve acquired some iconic brands: High Stakes Poker, Poker After Dark, and most recently, the NBC National Heads-Up Championship — which, by the way, you were part of."

— I’m curious, though — what kind of challenges have you faced with poker productions and the PokerGO business? From the outside, it looks like you guys are killing it. But I know the media world can be brutal.

"Yeah, production is a tough business — and the media business in general is really tough.

Look how long it took Netflix to turn a profit. I don’t even know if they’re fully profitable today. (laughs) We could look it up, but the point is, even the biggest streaming companies take years to get there.

Licensing revenue has also dropped dramatically. Back in the day, ESPN used to pay a big licensing fee for the WSOP. That made it much more profitable. But now? ESPN and other networks don’t pay those fees anymore.

Instead, they’ll say, “Give us two to four hours of content, we’ll air it for free — but we’re not paying you for it.” So, the TV side of the business lost a lot of value.

And when Black Friday hit — when the U.S. shut down the major online poker sites — that wiped out most of the advertising dollars that used to fuel poker media. All those online operators were the big sponsors. When they vanished, the ad money did too."

— So, I wanted to ask something bigger — what drives you to support poker so much? You’ve clearly invested a lot of time and money into it. Is it pure passion for the game, or is there something deeper behind it?

"Honestly, it’s just passion. I’ve loved poker since I was six years old. I’ve always enjoyed it — especially tournaments.

Cash games feel like a job. You sit down, grind for hours, and it’s all about maximizing profit. Tournaments, though, are different. They’re competitive, they’re exciting, and 99% of the time you’re not going to win — but that challenge is what makes it fun.

I just love the competition, and honestly, the PokerGO Studio is the best place to play. It’s literally a mile from my house, so I couldn’t ask for more.

I remember back when there were hardly any high-stakes tournaments in Vegas. When we started the ARIA High Rollers, there were almost no $10K events running."

— I heard that you were close with Bryn Kenney for a while — I remember him being a big supporter of yours.

"Yeah, Bryn and I are still great friends. He’s actually the only player I’ve ever staked. A lot of people have asked me over the years, but Bryn was different. He’s got this sixth sense that’s really hard to explain — and impossible to teach."

— How do you cope with losses?

"It’s about not getting rattled when you make bad decisions. And honestly, it’s taken me a long time — probably fifty-five years — to really learn that you have to embrace the losses.

For most of my life, I was like any other poker player. I’d get angry when I lost. I’d complain about bad luck, whine about bad beats, and let it eat at me. But recently, I had an epiphany — I’m done with that mindset. I’m not going to complain anymore.

Why? Because we’re so lucky to even play in these games. Top one percent lucky. To be able to sit down, compete, laugh with great people — it’s a gift. So now, I’m trying to focus on enjoying the ride.

I used to dread being all in. That knot in your stomach, that fear that it might all end. But now I’m learning to embrace it. If I get it in with queens versus ace-king and lose, I try to celebrate with my opponent or wish them good luck — not get angry. It’s just part of the game."

— So would you say that’s your big epiphany?

"Yeah — to enjoy the losses. Celebrate them if you can. It’s easier said than done, but I’ve realized that keeping your energy positive even when you’re losing helps everything turn around faster. Actually, I had a perfect example of that this summer when I finally won my first WSOP bracelet. After years of trying, I finally broke through. I was heads-up against a Brazilian player, and he had this crowd of like thirty screaming fans. Every time he won a hand, they went absolutely nuts.

At one point, I was way ahead — something like 31 million to 13 million. The blinds were around a million. He shoved with nine-eight suited, and I was crushed when he flopped me dead. The old me would’ve been furious. Complaining, sulking — “I should’ve won that bracelet.” But this time, I stopped myself. I just thought, “You know what? Screw it. I’m going to go celebrate with his fans.”

And I did. I walked over and felt the energy, just enjoyed it. I didn’t care that I’d lost the hand — I was in the moment.

And I swear to God, the very next hand, the universe rewarded me — I picked up pocket aces. I won that pot, then a few more, then won a flip with pocket threes versus ace-jack, and I won the bracelet."

— That’s a really good point. There’s a lot to be said for simply having the opportunity to play — to compete, to lose, even to suffer a little bit in the process.

"No, right. Like, in a way, I was creating my own prison. You get all in for this huge pot — if you win it, you’re the chip leader — and when you lose the flip, you just get angry and spiral. And really, all you’re doing is locking yourself inside that frustration. I did that for fifty-five years. I’m done with it.

From now on, when I’m all in, I’m just going to be grateful for the opportunity. I’ll be excited to play the hand. If I lose, I’ll celebrate with my opponent and trust that luck evens out. That’s the attitude I’m trying to adopt. I can’t say I do it one hundred percent, but I’m getting there."

— Anyway, we can move on from that. What other kinds of epiphanies have you had — in poker, business, or life — that have helped you become happier?

"Hmm, well… health, definitely. Like a lot of people my age, I spent my adult life twenty pounds overweight, constantly busy, always working, always finding excuses — too busy for the gym, too busy to eat right.

Now that I’ve got more time, I’ve finally got a handle on it. I’ve really simplified my approach to food. I eat at noon and six, fast for eighteen hours, and I’ve completely cut out snacking. I’m just done with it.

It’s amazing how much clearer and lighter you feel when you stop constantly grazing."

— And you gave up sugar completely?

"I think quitting sugar has helped me a lot — not just physically, but mentally. For focus, energy, even clear thinking. I was addicted to sugar for fifty-five years. I’m talking full-on chocolate addiction. Cutting it out has been life-changing."

— I’m tempted to quit sugar myself, though I just crushed a bag of Haribo before this. Maybe you can convince the audience to do it too.

"Yeah, sugar’s brutal for your health. It spikes your insulin constantly, makes you hungrier, and just keeps that craving cycle going. You think you’re satisfying it, but you’re just feeding it. My understanding is that even the bacteria in your mouth start craving it. It’s wild.

There are some “cheat codes” though. Sugar-free gum helps. You can make great low-carb desserts — sugar-free brownies, for example, or Breyer’s low-carb vanilla ice cream. Yeah, you’re still using artificial sweeteners, but that’s a much smaller evil. You need substitutes when you’re breaking free from sugar — it’s not easy. Took me fifty-five years. It’s a hard drug. But after two weeks or so, the cravings disappear because the bacteria in your mouth start to change.

Now, I can take it or leave it. I used to eat three candy bars a day. Totally out of control."

— You mentioned your workout routine earlier — it honestly sounded pretty intense. What benefits have you noticed from quitting sugar, and is your focus now just general health or more about longevity?

"A little of both. I’ve been working with an anti-aging doctor since around COVID. He’s helped me make gradual improvements — not crazy changes all at once. One big thing I learned from him (and also from Dr. Peter Attia) is that the single most important thing a sedentary person can do for longevity is to lift weights.

If you go from doing nothing to just lifting three times a week, your risk of what they call the four horsemen — heart disease, cancer, metabolic disease, and neurodegenerative disease — drops by something like 300%. So yeah, it’s basically a no-brainer.

I lift about 150 times a year now. I used to do more, but at my age (55), recovery becomes an issue. Now I space it out — three times a week, different muscle groups, give everything a week to recover. That’s been a lot better for me."

— Yeah, overtraining’s real. My trainer told me about oxidative stress — working out too hard can actually make things worse.

"For sure. That’s why I balance it with yoga — also about 150 sessions a year. It undoes a lot of the tightness from lifting. The one thing I’ve always been bad at is cardio. I just find it boring. My goal this year is to do at least forty cardio sessions. I’m behind schedule, but I’ll get there."

— You’re doing more than most people already.

"Thanks. And yeah, I also do cryotherapy three times a week. That’s been a game changer, especially for recovery. The one I go to is basically a walk-in freezer — minus 160 degrees Fahrenheit. It hits your whole body, head included. You step out feeling like you’re on a natural high — all those endorphins hit. And it’s done wonders for my knees.

Between fasting, lifting, yoga, and cryo, I feel better now at 55 than I did at 35."

— How does all this relate to business? Many will say, "It's easy to talk when you have money."

"That's true: when you're 30, have kids, and debt, it's hard to find balance. But I think that ultimately, balance is what makes you effective. When I was young and working 12 hours a day, I ate poorly and thought that was the way it should be. But then I realized: energy is the most important asset; without it, there would be no business or poker."

— So, fitness has become part of your approach to working on yourself?

"I look at my body as a project. If you're building a company, you don't wait for it to collapse before fixing it. It's the same here: prevention is better than cure.

When you're over fifty, you begin to understand that the main thing is to stop time. For children, summer seems to last forever because everything is new. But for adults, the days fly by because nothing changes. To slow down time, you need to constantly create new experiences, change, and be surprised. I want to live the next thirty years more slowly, notice details, be in the moment."

— You have six children and six grandchildren. How do you manage to combine this with business and poker?

"That's probably the biggest challenge. I've been focused on work for too long, now I'm trying to do the opposite—be there, listen, observe. My children are grown, and I'm trying to be a role model for you, not someone who's always in meetings."

— Did you instill in them a love of poker?

"I'm not pushing it, but they're interested because poker is a great school of life. It teaches you to make decisions and take responsibility for them."

— You're the inventor of the most widespread poker innovation of recent years—the big blind ante in tournaments. How did this idea come about?

"We were playing in Jeremy’s cash game one night, and they were having the big blind post the ante each hand. I thought, “Wow, this is so much more efficient — why don’t we do this in tournaments?” So, I brought it to the ARIA events.

At first, I played around with different structures — sometimes the ante was half the big blind, sometimes double. It took about six months before I settled on one-to-one, and that’s what stuck.

It completely sped up the game. If you remember the old WSOP days — the 400/800 level with a 75 ante — the dealer was constantly making change. Three green chips here, four black chips there… it was chaos. Every hand took forever.

So I thought, “This is insane. We’ve got to fix this.” And that’s how the Big Blind Ante was born."

— You've risked a lot of money in business. In poker, too. What makes these risks different?

"In business, you bet on years to come; in poker, you bet on a single hand. But the principles are the same: understand why you're doing it, and don't regret it if the outcome isn't in your favor. Sometimes you lose, even when you do everything right, and that's okay."

— How do you rate your poker level today?

"I think I’m plus EV in the studio events for sure, but definitely not online. That’s a whole different beast."

— You already have a bracelet, dozens of titles, a successful business, and a media platform. What's next?

"Yeah, I’d like to win. You know, PokerGO has four majors — the Poker Masters, the U.S. Poker Open, the Super High Roller Bowl, and the PokerGO Cup. My goal is to win all four by 2030. I’ve got two so far, so we’ll see if I can finish the set."

— You know, honestly, you’re one of the biggest influencers poker’s ever had. I’m not sure who’s really bigger.

"Oh, Negreanu, by far."

— You think so?

"Without a doubt. If he’s on a stream, viewership jumps 5x, sometimes 10x. He’s constantly active — social media, interviews, promoting the game. He’s done more for poker’s visibility than anyone else."

— I get that, but I’d argue that building the infrastructure — the platforms, the events, the live broadcast network — has a bigger long-term impact. Players like him get the spotlight, but people forget about the work behind the scenes that makes poker sustainable.

"I get your point. But trust me — Negreanu’s done a ton behind the scenes, too. Stuff people never hear about. He works with the World Series of Poker on improving formats and structures, gives input on online poker, and constantly promotes events.

If he’s playing a PokerGO series, viewership doubles, sometimes triples. That exposure drives the ecosystem.

You’re not wrong about infrastructure being important, but Negreanu’s the face of poker for millions of fans. His presence lifts everything around him.

And I’ve got to say — Phil Hellmuth deserves some credit too. He’s been with us since 2015, one of PokerGO’s earliest ambassadors. We wouldn’t have gotten as far without him."

— That’s true. He doesn’t always get enough appreciation for how much positive energy he actually puts into the game.

"Exactly. He’s a character — polarizing, but perfect for poker. People love him or hate him, but either way, they watch. He’s the hero and the villain rolled into one."

— Yeah, whereas Negreanu’s just the pure hero archetype.

"Right. And to be fair, Daniel works really hard. People think it’s all talent, but he’s constantly improving, thinking about the game."

— Yeah, though I remember his MasterClass saying you need to study four to six hours a day to compete with the best.

"(laughs) Yeah, that’s a little exaggerated. He’s not one of those grinder types living in the solver every day. His strength is more mental — reading people, understanding psychology, knowing his opponents. He’s got that old-school edge.

He’s also won two of PokerGO’s four major titles and even topped the leaderboard this year. He’s still right there at the top — after all these years."

— That’s impressive. Definitely something to aspire to.

"For sure. He’s proof that longevity in poker isn’t just about study — it’s about passion, adaptability, and mindset."