Spring 2024 brought big clashes between online poker sites and heads of poker stables (also known as backing funds, training funds, and several other labels).
PokerOK is on one side of the debate, calling for the end of poker stables and banishment from the GG platforms. PokerOK is the Russian wing of the GG Network that uses the same software as GGPoker.
Poker stables sit on the other side, pleading their case and fighting for the right to exist. Stables or poker funds are organizations of players who train together, find staking/backing, and may share losses to mitigate variance.
We covered all of the buildup already, from the first official declaration of war from PokerOK.
PokerOK CEO Speaks with Poker Stable Representatives
On Monday evening, there was a meeting between PokerOK management and representatives of poker stables. Full-fledged negotiations were not bearing any fruit.
On behalf of the poker stables, Gleb Tremzin and Artem "VeA" Vezhenkov were present at the event. Afterward, Artem described his perspective on the meeting with PokerOK's CEO on the Russian-speaking forum, which your browser should translate automatically if you'd like to read it.
A few hours after the call, PokerOK CEO Ivan Bryksin's words became the hottest topic on the entire forum and he spent the whole night talking with the public.
In his first very lengthy message under his DonkVsFish username, Ivan expressed two main points that would become the leitmotif of most of his posts:
– I've been wanting to sort out the stables online for a long time. This is just the beginning.
– The GG network has always defended the interests of amateurs exclusively.
Two large funds received special mention. FiatLab was faced with the fact that the game on the GG network was already closed for them, and FunFarm was advised to get ready for the same treatment.
To specific players, the CEO said, "Let Inner or Mikhon, Vea or Gleb give their full ultimatum and position."
Perhaps this was where he planned to stop talking with the public, but he was just getting started. Over the next 13 hours, he left 100 messages in the thread.
After a Long Forum Session, the CEO Gives an Ultimatum
PokerOK's CEO published his own ultimatum.
In it, he put forward the network's main demands to poker stable managers. We've translated it and made it more readable, while preserving the meaning:
– The activity of backing funds on PokerOK and GGPoker will be stopped completely. You must not play on PokerOK and you must not advertise training, playing or backing on PokerOK.
– You undertake to publicly declare that you understand and accept the position of our room and our network and leave PokerOK and GG. The wording must be agreed upon with our representative.
– If some of your players express a desire to stop collaborating with the fund, leave the fund and never work with any fund again, we agree to reconsider our restrictive measures upon them. Let us emphasize: this applies only to those players who permanently cease cooperation with the fund.
– If we learn that a player continues to participate in the fund (whether from any public sources or using our analytics tools), the most stringent measures will be taken against them.
– You must understand that our decision to fight the funds was made solely to protect the interests of poker fans.
– We don't want to destroy your students' "poker dreams" and the opportunity to make money from poker. Due to this, you will have to give us lists of those players who are leaving or have graduated from the funds and who want to play honestly on our site. We do not want restrictions to affect players who do not cooperate with the funds, so we will remove the restrictions from them and from your graduates.
In the following posts, Ivan repeated several times that funds are an absolute evil for poker. He later added that according to his data, the total number of players from different "stables" on PokerOK is about 3,500 people.
The many accusations of "teamplay, soft play, collusion, ghosting, bum hunting, multi-accounting and mining of databases, notes and strategies," that sparked all of this seemed to have faded into the background.
Ivan's posts did not mention anything from this previous list at all. Instead, he stated that the main complaint of the room is that the "stables" win too much.
Forum Discussions with PokerOK's Ceo Continue
Ivan was reminded that one of the largest and most successful poker funds belongs to Fedor Holtz, who is responsible for the purity of the game at GG. And accusations of foul play have been leveled against Brazilian funds for many years. Even now, many naively assumed that they were the main target. One player, Minthon, cautiously suggested on his stream that "our stables were simply hit by a ricochet from the Brazilian ones."
Ivan denied this version of the story, saying that the topic of foreign funds has not even been touched upon yet. But in the future, he will definitely bring this issue to the management of the network.
Fiat also doubted that "the network decided everything":
– We know for sure that you (Ivan) are transmitting a distorted picture of events to the network management. So we're confident that whatever Big GG's initial position is, it may change as management gains insight into the full picture. You can be sure that we will help them with this.
Fiat also noted the absurdity of providing lists of players who will voluntarily leave the funds in order to continue playing on GG:
"And today, before the demonstrative flogging that you planned, completely indecent, essentially gangster demands were conveyed to us through unofficial channels. We, of course, rejected them, because no one authorized us to 'hand over lists' of players for the purpose of 'protecting' them from bans, least of all the players themselves.
I can speak for the guys from FiatLab; none of them wrote asking to support such demands."
Alexey finished his story not without a bit of pathos:
"We sincerely believe that the only harmful subject of this entire discussion is the idea of turning poker into a pure casino, disguised as a 'fight against stables.' Destroying the very dream of a professional career.
You told Gleb today that in GG's understanding, there should be no winning players, they are an unnecessary and unnatural element of your business model. In our opinion, the problem is that in this way, you want to bury the era of professional poker.
Loop the scenario after 20 years – from Moneymaker to Moneymaker. We're not sure we can prevent this. But we promise to do our best."
Somewhere in the depths of the Fiat message, Ivan saw an offer of a bribe:
– Fiat, it seems to me that you were given erroneous information. I have never asked or wanted a penny from your funds. My position is simple, you will not play here. Those who want to play fairly, let them play.
I was the first to tell each of you this.
I don't need anything from you, absolutely. Just leave.
Then he confirmed that his ultimate goal is to turn poker into something like a casino:
– In fact, the RTP for slots is 96%, and for a poker player, at best, 60%. If everything is done correctly, and the amateur has 96%, then poker will grow hundreds of times over.
It will be like a casino game, but against people. It will be clearly written in the rules – you are playing a game with RTP blablabla.
If you play with a perfect strategy or so, you will be banned with confiscation. AI will do this very easily and quickly. That's all – a room full of amateurs. Yes, they will win, but not in the long run.
Having learned about the publication of this material, the head of PokerOK asked to clarify that this is "where it seems to me that poker will one day come. This is my personal opinion and hypothesis. That's 5+ years."
A forum veteran (xenute), known for his common sense, asked Ivan a series of logical and simple questions.
However, he was not given an answer right away. "xenute, can you make it shorter please? There are a lot of questions."
Xenute made several more attempts to enter into dialogue, but all of them were unsuccessful.
But Ivan answered another burning question – is there an RNG in the GG network?
– I have a mega-winning region. If it were possible to tweak this, I wouldn't kick out funds, there wouldn't be a PVI system, there wouldn't be bans or bots. It would simply not be necessary. No one will ever take a risk on a company that is valued at 10kkk. This is illogical. It's easier to remove the regs and leave only weak regs.
Several times during the evening, Ivan put forward the idea that Lorem was ready for not the most honest methods of struggle:
– Lorem and everyone in the foundations argue that they will read and so on. Well, there will be a struggle. Funds harm ordinary regs and players, this is obvious.
– The funds must capitulate and withdraw. Then ordinary players who left the fund will calmly make money. If the funds deceive us, then this will drag on and will affect the regs, as Lorem said beautifully on stream.
This is not the first time that Lorem's reputation has been questioned by PokerOK representatives. A few days ago Inner wrote in the same thread:
– Lorem himself said on the stream that the fund will easily merge its entire player base and recruit new ones, just to be able to continue making money in the GG glades. I also compared all the hard workers you pretend to care about with the pawnbrokers. "Waste material" is a quote if anything.
Lorem responded to these accusations in detail in his Telegram (in Russian).
What he actually said and what meaning he put into his words, is up to you. You can watch the 6-hour stream, if you speak Russian.
In conclusion, DonkVsFish aka the PokerOK CEO outlined the not-very-bright prospects that await all stable players:
– All new drop accounts and those who suddenly began to win will be frozen and checked for involvement in the funds. The more evidence we have, the longer this review will take. Yes, you will withdraw money. No problem. But I will study the players very carefully, and this will take a very long time.
Players of Fiat and all stables who are frozen must update their data. Next – withdraw money. I do not need your money. You will get it out, that's for sure. But how long will it take? Since we can't cope with your impudence, we will freeze a thousand+ accounts. And checking your documents will take a very long time. Believe me, bookmakers do this all the time. You are undesirable for business, you directly threaten me, you publicly say in public that you will deceive, and the funds will not go away.
I wanted to come to an agreement, I promised not to take a penny from you and I won't. I swore on the health of my children, and this is not just a sound. We now have a personal vendetta.
Come and bow before it's too late. My position is clear. Your stables will not play on PokerOK.
After this, PokerOK CEO Ivan Bryksin asked to block his account on the Russian GipsyTeam forum. He returned late in the evening of April 2, but this time not for long. He limited himself to one message, starting with an appeal to Anatoly Nikitin. He considers his longtime enemy to be the shadow leader of the association of funds.
Then DonkvsFish briefly repeated his yesterday's proclimations and again called on the funds to capitulate and go through the subsequent negotiations:
"When you finish and understand the reality of the business, come talk"...
