It's an age-old debate in the poker world. Men versus women, boys versus girls. Who is the greater gender?
Well, we actually don't need to compare them side by side, but I know you guys are going to do that anyway, so we might as well start now. Some people say that women aren't capable of playing poker. Some people say — these awful misogynists — they call pocket queens the dishwashers. Other people are saying that women just don't have what it takes. But how good are women really?
The chances of this happening — second place, first place, first place — are like millions to one. It's crazy. Congratulations on somehow cheating, or whatever you did. It's very impressive. I know.
I'm not going easy on her because she's an attractive Asian woman. I promise you that.
So it looks like we're on the final table of the WSOP. Imagine you're here, six women all chipping away at each other, and this is where we're at.
So we've been four-bet by . We've called . Seems fine, could definitely consider folding. Don't know the exact positions. Looks like we're on the cutoff, so we probably opened the hijack. We three-bet, they four-bet, we call.
And it's worth noting that there are two chip leaders and we're one of them.
- Flop (2,670,000):
Veronika checks.
Oh, and somebody doesn't c-bet. How often is this or ? It's literally only ace-king and ace-queen when they don't c-bet. Would strongly recommend c-betting with your .
Okamoto checks next.
- Turn (2,670,000):
Veronika bets 425,000.
I'm a little bit confused about what this bet is trying to achieve. Maybe trying to make specifically fold. Seems like a punt. Maybe she's going for a bet and shoving the river. We'll see.
There's only one good move here. Yes, of course, the min-raise. I'm joking. It's to call. You can only call.
Okamoto calls.
- River (3,520,000, effective stack 4,530,000):
Oh, this is a non-all-in bet. That's dicey. But that is exactly what's going through her head. Oh, she got snapped.
Veronika's Play: I'm going to rate this play like a god, even four-betting pre. I mean, it's a fine hand to use as a four-bet bluff, but I would recommend not doing it with this stack disparity. Whatever. We'll leave that out.
Checking the flop? Wouldn't recommend it.
Betting the turn, then betting the river small... I'm going to rate this like a two and a half out of ten.
Shiina's Play: Checking the flop is the only part I might slightly disagree with, but it could also be better than betting small, which is what I would have done. I'm going to rate this a nine out of ten from Shiina.
I'm not going easy on her because she's an attractive Asian woman. I promise you that. I think she just played that perfectly, and to snap-call on the river as well. On the WSOP final table, six left, trying to win it back to back, and to just be cool about it. That's pretty funny.
Okay, we've opened and got a call from the button with .
750k in the pot. Yeah, we've opened the hijack. The button, who is a middling stack and really has no incentive to go after the big stack, has called the button with . And the big blind has called with , which is probably fine.
And we've got a disastrous flop ( ).
Everyone is waiting.
Ooh, instant check from Shiina.
- Turn (750,000):
Now with , you've got to start piling chips into the middle. It's very rare that somebody has a flush. Somebody can have an , especially like an or something. Okamoto can have jacks with a diamond, kings with a diamond.
So you've got to start getting some value and protection. The only diamond in the hole — Veronica betting with the best of it. 175k. Such a small bet. This is getting to the point where we start having to call this hand. If she bet any bigger, I feel like you'd have to start folding jacks with no diamond, but at this size it's kind of priced in. I kind of have to start calling now. It's very close.
At 100k, you're definitely calling. At 300k, you're definitely folding. Around this size, it's borderline. Veronica on the flop, Okamoto sees just one overcard.
By the way, just for people watching at home who aren't mega-professional poker players, this is a final table. Everything you know about poker is completely different because ICM exists. And if you don't know what that is, just Google it, and you'll probably still not really have an idea what it is. Don't worry. The professionals don't either.
Against a 200k bet, what would you guys do? I guess we're just all-in.
It very much feels like Veronika has like an ace-something — ace-ten, maybe two pair, maybe ace-eight, something like that. I would have expected nine-eight to go bigger on the turn, so I wouldn't be putting her on nine-eight so often. But it doesn't feel like a flush. And it doesn't really feel like a straight either.
So if you're Okamoto, you want to be trying to look as weak as possible with your all-in.
Veronika folds.
Ten out of ten. I'm not going easy on her because she's an attractive Asian woman. I promise you that.
Down to four people. The second chip stack has raised 3x. We've got . Could consider three-betting here. I would always call with this hand.
Continuation bet 250,000. Call only, no options.
Turn card. Oh wow, what action. It's a spade as well.
Whoa. Checking the turn is interesting.
I think I love it. I think this is a fantastic check from the rubber ducky girl. She's got two rubber ducks, so I didn't give her that name. Usually you'd want to be betting this, but it's a final table, and you're first and second in chips, so you definitely want to be checking this.
And as Okamoto here, I feel like you probably want to go really big, like over a million. Something along these lines, because you're going to be ahead against a lot of hands that are pretty inelastic.
Let's name a couple together: , , , a pair with a flush draw.
You don't really care about the other stuff too much because your hand is so strong and you're at a final table against the other chip leader. You're almost happy to take it down now against ace-jack offsuit. Obviously, it's not ideal, but it's not a disaster to take it down now. So I feel like you probably want to go like 1.1 million here.
This is where we're going to see Shiina put to the test.
Okamoto bets 425,000.
I'm writing this one down. I don't think that's a good sizing.
Hagberg check-raises to 1,200,000.
Oops. I take everything I said back. Maybe Shiina knew something about this guy that I didn't. I wouldn't expect a check-raise in that situation, ever, from anyone. A raise is certainly very interesting and might not even be that bad. Although I would always call. ICM changes everything in tournaments. You have no idea how much!
Yeah, I thought this was what she was planning when she checked, because just this ace-king suited, blind versus blind... I take back everything I said. Maybe Shiina knew something about this person that I didn't. I wouldn't expect anybody to have any raises here ever.
Okamoto calls.
. A total blank. Or it changes the luck that you have in a poker game. Just FYI, you can get better rivers if you have stronger energy. That's what we believe on this channel.
All right, if you're Hagberg here you probably have to go like 30% pot, maybe check. I'll probably just block here, because a raise is saying you assume you're ahead.
Monster bet into 3.74 million. What just happened? Like three million, not 300,000.
...and a snap call. I wouldn't be confident calling 3 million. I mean, it's a read-based thing, perhaps. Or maybe just Shiina's thought process, where everything bricked and two pair is probably good.
I'm going to have to rate this hand. I'm going to rate Hagberg's play like a two out of ten.
If I were Shiina, I wouldn't be so sure about . Because the rival's line depicts at least , maybe, ...But Shiina is as cold as ice. It's a real pleasure to watch all this.
Preflop limp and check. On the flop, there's one blind and they call.
Honestly, I don't like limping with . Although, it depends heavily on how the opponent plays, I'd default to raising to 2.5bb. People are overfolding, and ICM allows us to lose.
On Okamoto's check, Alcorn bets 400,000.
So I guess there's a weird thing going on here. Alcorn can't really have any strong hands. She would have probably raised an ace pre-flop. You're technically allowed to check some suited aces in this configuration, but I don't know if somebody actually would in practice. not in there. Sets not in there. Not many two pairs, because most of the cards are big cards that would have raised pre-flop.
I don't know if Okamoto can just fold against a half-pot bet. I mean, it's a pretty sizable bet at the final table, but we'll see. 400k into 800k, making a pot of 1.2 million. Will Okamoto call this? We know she's sticky. She does not like to fold.
Guys, I don't know how to say this. I might be falling in love.
For the reasons I said before, it's so hard for Alcorn to have a strong hand. It depends on some reads, whether you think she bets too much on a check, and things like that. But this is such a great bluff. She found a situation where she probably thinks her opponent is betting too thin for value going half pot.
If the person sitting here had even like , are you going to put all of your chips in? Oh, wait, sorry, it's not Hagberg, it's Alcorn. So this is a different person. Are you going to put all of your chips in on a one-pair holding? Most people aren't. And if she's betting here, there's no way she could continue into a bluff. I mean, I wasn't expecting that, but Okamoto has a feeling here.
Alcorn surrenders.
I'll take off one point for preflop.
Okay. So how good is she really?
We had some fascinating hands to look at here. And what I saw, what I think I saw, is somebody who understands that her opponents are thinking on one level and has gone to the level above.
Now, she has come second, first, and first in the same tournament three years in a row, which is just insane. That can't just be luck. That really has to be some level of skill, possibly with a bit of divine intervention on top. But just the hands that I saw, it was very much like learning how to exploit people's pretty obvious weaknesses in an extraordinarily intelligent way.
The only time I saw a crack in this would be the , betting the turn small. I'm hesitant to mark that down as much as I would have, because I actually want to speak to her about it and just find out what the reasoning was, because that really did stand out as a strange one and everything else was just stellar.
I'm going to tentatively place her in the A Tier.
I'll reach out and get some clarification on this, because this is fascinating stuff.
– Shiina, I needed to speak to you because I had some infuriating questions, and hopefully my audience can forgive you because English is not your first language. But I needed to know the truth about how good Shiina really is. I've been saying too many nice things and it's made me uncomfortable how nice I was being.
And by the way, congratulations. I estimated the chances of this happening. Coming second place, first place, first place is like millions to one. It's crazy. So congratulations on somehow cheating, or whatever you did to succeed. It's very impressive. You got away with it. It's incredible.
In the title of the video, I'll call you the strongest female poker player in the world. How fair is that?
Only in that field I'm better, because I can read the emotions of ladies very well. So it's my advantage only in the ladies field.
– Is that true? You can read the emotions of women better than you can read the emotions of men?
Yes. Ladies are very emotional, so I can take advantage of that.
– Sorry, I didn't know you were a sexist, well, well!
I can say it because I am also emotional.
– Oh, so am I. So I can make these jokes too because I'm emotional?
No.
– So when you're at the table, you look very in control. You look like a killer, like somebody that's about to make a move and not even blink. Your emotions are very controlled and you have strong energy. Is that a show, or is that really who you are as a person?
I am always nervous playing poker. Yeah, it's the real me.
– But you wouldn't know it from looking at you.
At the final table, I try to act confident, but I'm nervous in my mind.
– What's your opinion about women poker players versus men poker players?
It very much depends on the person. Female players' play styles are very polarized. Some are too aggressive and some are too passive.
– I genuinely have a very big question, and it's about the hand.
I want to know what was going on inside your mind in this situation.
I supposed that if she had a good hand, she would continue betting on the turn. So I didn't think she had a good hand on the turn.
– Why did you bet so small on the turn with two flush draws on the board?
Yes, the ladies field is very unique because they are not used to playing at the final table. So their play style changes very dramatically. I would play differently even if I had the same hand, the same opponent, and the same stacks.
– Do you think she could have had , , ?
No. If she had an ace, she would bet even if the kicker was not good.
– So this is what I thought may have been happening. If you thought maybe Hagberg had been betting her strong hands and checking her weaker ones too much, then maybe you put her on a weaker hand and went for a smaller size. But my criticism is that even if that is true, you still have to bet bigger because your hand is so vulnerable. There are lots of bad river cards: a club, a spade, a five, a deuce, a six, all of these things. So I think your sizing is a mistake.
Yeah, I think so many people criticized me about that.
– And we're going to bully you in the comments of this YouTube video now for this. We found a mistake that you made. We found one mistake. And so she then goes and check-raises your tiny bet. And you call, and the river is heavenly. By the way, are you a religious person?
Yes, after I was the back to back champion.
– Yeah, I was going to say these three tournaments alone would make me believe in any god that I was praying to that day.
Yeah, I'm not sure why I could call. I think it's a misplay, but I was lucky to win that hand after that action.
– She's second in chips and you're first in chips as well. For me, that's like minimum .
Yes. Yeah, I think so. So I don't know why I could call.
– All right. This is the perfect analysis. This is exactly what my YouTube video said.
– Shiina asked me to go over another hand with her. !
– Can you put in a good word with the WSOP and invite me to next year's women's tournament?
It costs 10K for you. But it's good for you.
– So you open . She calls. You've been dominated. Oh no. She leads out for 300,000. Tell me your thought process.
I slightly preferred her hand suited, like pocket fives, pocket sixes, pocket sevens. So actually I wanted to fold on the flop, because I had seen she would bet a little on the flop if she had a good hand, regardless of the flop texture. So I wanted to fold on the flop.
– She didn't know about continuation betting? She was just betting if she had a good hand?
Yes.
– Wow. So you wanted to fold on the flop, but you had backdoor diamonds and a backdoor straight draw, so it makes sense to call.
Yeah, it's the only reason I called. And the second reason is that live tournaments are a very unique field, and people will change their action dramatically at the final table because they are not used to playing as seriously. Sometimes she might bluff a little with a hand. It's a low possibility.
– So she's betting 500,000. What do you think her range is here?
The main range was small or middle pocket pairs, like pocket fives or pocket sevens, and sometimes suited.
– Oh, so you just folded. I thought we were about to see something cool. I thought you were about to shove it in her face. Okay, you made a good fold.
What I can understand from this is that you are thinking very, very exploitatively. You can put people in very precise, small ranges very quickly because they play very face-up.
I understand the tendency of the play style quickly. Exactly.
– We call pre-flop with king-three. Now I have to ask, why are we calling instead of raising pre-flop with king-three?
Because her three-bet frequency was so high after we were down to three. She would jam with an ace with all kickers. On the other hand, she would not raise against my limp with trash hands. So limping is profitable.
– I would almost always raise king-three, but if the person is three-bet shoving too wide and if they're checking too much, this is a very good adjustment. I rated this hand a nine out of ten, but I guess I will have to upgrade it to a ten out of ten now that I've heard the reasoning for it.
So the flop comes ace-queen-three and you end up betting the flop, 160k. She calls and the turn is a jack. There's 800,000 in the pot and she goes ahead and bets 400,000. Now what is your thought process? There's 1.2 million in the pot and she has 3 million behind.
As I said, I assumed she didn't have an ace and two Broadway cards. Her bet was not strong. So I check-raised the ace, and if she didn't jam the turn, I would continue to the river.
– Yeah, raise the turn to shove the river I think is perfect, and I think most people do not think to do that. So I thought it was very impressive on this hand.
Were you at all worried when she check-raised the turn? What did you think was happening there?
I wasn't happy when I faced the check-raise on the turn because I might lose, but a flush draw with six-high is too good to fold. So I just called, but I was not happy.
– When you were playing at the final table, were you giving fake tells to your opponents? If you had a big hand, were you trying to act scared? Or if you had a small hand, were you trying to act strong?
Yes.
– I thought you did a great job. Very subtle, barely noticeable changes in facial expression can often plant the idea we need in our opponent's head and dramatically change the course of the hand."
What's next? Will you continue to focus on women's tournaments? Or will you try competing against men?
Yeah, I want to get a trophy in open fields, not only in ladies fields.
– How many tournaments do you play a year?
About 200-300 tournaments per year.
– What? 300 live tournaments a year?
I spend half the year outside of Japan and only play poker. So, probably closer to 200.
– How is your career going? Is it successful?
Because I wanted to play poker again. Not only cash games, not only private games. I was also very frustrated. I want to also win tournaments.
