Kahyan Mokri Talks Heads-Up, Solvers, & Having No Fear of Looking Dumb

– You play the highest stakes tournaments, some of the biggest cash games, nosebleed heads-up against various opponents, and you're what, 31?

How did you get there? I know in the old days people would kind of play a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but you're not quite old-school age-wise. So how did you end up playing such big stakes in so many different variants?

I think I ran very good at some point in my career where I had some fortunate tournament scores, which boosted and elevated my bankroll to a place where I could battle the best players and not be too worried about it.
In the beginning it was very uncomfortable because I was playing against all the big names and stuff, but mostly it was a lot of fun, very intense, and just a very hard grind honestly, but a lot of fun I would say.

– What was hard about it specifically?

For me, the biggest problem was probably around 2020, 2021. I had some problems moving above $10/$20 and $25/$50. I probably didn't table-select as I should have, but I think I got a lot better in the process. I was struggling to get over a certain threshold of stakes. I basically skipped $25/$50 and $51/$100 because of a tournament score I had in 2021. There was basically so much stress where I had to go to $10/$20, back to $5/$10, and this lasted for about six months to a year. But this was back in the six-max days.
I definitely had a very nice time playing six-max, but at some point it got very, I don't know, static. Maybe a bit boring for me. So I basically ended up trying to play heads-up instead, around end of 2022, beginning of 2023. I found it way more interesting, the dynamics, the personal stuff, and the trash-talking back and forth.
I think it's more personal, it's more action-based, while when you play six-max you kind of have to wait around a bit. So yeah, I think heads-up, and a mixture between heads-up and some six-max and some tournaments, going a bit all over the place to keep myself interested, is what's been working for me.

– Tell me about the trash-talking a bit, because I know about your live tournament trash talk and I enjoy that. It's quite playful.

I had an episode with the notorious guy, Stefan Burakov. This was probably when I started playing heads-up.
Apparently he's a bit, I wouldn't say a nutcase, but he has a disorder, like bipolar or something, and he would just relentlessly write things to me on Skype or wherever it was, like, "Oh, you Norwegian rat, you suck, I'm going to kill you," and this and that. So yeah, he's probably the biggest trash talker of them all.
But he actually had a very unique style, you know, he was out there battling against the best. I don't know how he's doing these days. I heard he had a bit of an unfortunate event with some personal stuff. But yeah, he's the most intense guy I've ever played. We would play 16 hours straight, two or three-tabling, 16 hours straight, trash-talking back and forth. That was a lot of fun.

– Is there anything more enjoyable for you than when you're 12 hours into a multi-table session against the same player and you're crushing?

Back in the day, a couple of years ago, I used to play those types of sessions. Right now I would say after four or five hours the fatigue is going to get me. It's not the same. I think it has something to do with my motivation for playing now. I'm a bit older. I have other stuff to do. But when you're running good in heads-up and you have the momentum, it's a dream to play. It's a lot of fun.
And obviously it goes the other way around too. When you're losing and you're just losing every hand, you have no motivation to play, but you still keep on playing, trying to win a stack or two and get some momentum. It's a very interesting dynamic, because you see even the notorious best players in the world get affected. I get affected.
People who you thought were just going to play their A-game no matter what. But at the end of the day, we're still all humans. I for sure have sessions where I played like a straight-up recreational player.

– I can remember going to a restaurant with my dad after I'd been playing heads-up for like 24 straight hours, and my inclination was to not tell the waitress what I actually wanted. I'm in check-raise as a bluff mode and I'm like, what the hell is wrong with you, dude? This is real life. You don't have to be deceptive. You can actually just straight up tell her that you want the green beans.

Yeah, I mean, this is pretty normal to me. It sounds pretty normal that you just phase out, almost like you're in another world, or you're still playing poker in your head, or your brain hasn't understood that you're not playing poker anymore.
The last couple of years I try to not play right before bedtime, because it can be very disturbing for sleep. Which is the biggest issue because in the European time zone you're sometimes forced to play at night, which is not the best.

– Who are some of the other great players you've played against?

I couldn't cut off the list. ButtonClickr, TrueTeller lately, Prudently, all the big names online. I've probably played all of them, with the exception of Berri Sweet. Maybe I try to avoid that guy.
But other than that, I think I've played mostly everyone in both 5-card PLO and No Limit Texas Hold'em.

– Without giving up your competitive advantage, tell me about Linus's game heads-up.

My god, he's very good. The thing about players like Linus is that on a technical level they're just going to be way better than me, for sure. First of all, he's been playing heads-up for I don't know, ten years. So the advantages I have to try to find are human leaks or tendencies that maybe aren't quite as they're supposed to be.
You really have to think hard about how he's going to perceive you in those particular spots. Is he going to think I overbluff the spot or underbluff?
On a technical level, he's probably the best player in the world because he's just very advanced. He's obviously worked very hard on his game for many, many years.

– What makes you able to execute a strategy that may not simply be about technical skills? What are you looking for and what enables that?

I think my biggest skill set is honestly that I'm not afraid to look stupid. I have had so many hands where people must think I'm a nutcase at times, but I decide that when I do something it's because I think it's right. I usually just go with my gut.
I don't know if it comes from a place of confidence, or if I'm just very cocky or arrogant. I don't know what it is. I just believe that you have to try to do what you think is best in each case.
Against some players I'll probably just bluff way too much, and against other players I'll probably never have a bluff. In the moment I think I have a good feel for the game.
I think I also know a lot of the technical stuff that I should know, but in the best case scenario I would probably be very locked in and very aware of what's happening at the table, because there are days you just play very well and there are days you play very badly.

– Do you think that sometimes people lean towards the solver trying to get this approval that I was talking about before?

Certainly looking for approval. I wonder if they decide to go theory-oriented for their game simply to have that crutch, or if it's an ancillary benefit that comes out of having a much more theoretically sound game.
I know of some people who are definitely trying to find comfort in the solver, but I'm not sure if that's the best way to have growth in your game. I think that's kind of what I was talking about before. When I started using solvers back in the 500 Zoom days (on PokerStars), I was playing at least 40% worse.
I was trying to implement all this technical stuff, trying to copy the solver basically. And at that point my win rates took a big hit from it. But I think it was a short-term thing. I'm very much for working with solvers. But I'm also more worried about, and now more concentrated on, understanding the fundamentals of why the solver is doing this, why it's doing X and Y and whatever. I think that's a healthy approach.

– What's the easiest format for you to tilt in?

Oh, definitely PLO five-card heads-up. It's a very tough game mentally, and it's just on a different level. You can be down 20 buy-ins in two hours and not necessarily have done anything wrong. It's just how the game works. But I think it was a very good learning curve for me to battle against the best.
It was a very risky way to go about it for sure, because I was definitely taking shots over the last five or six years, maybe not gambling with my bankroll but definitely taking shots. I was playing big heads-up matches when I was sure and convinced that I was the better player out of the two of us.
But I wouldn't do that from the get-go. I would actually collect data and try to see, does he have any leaks? What can I do better? And once I realized this, I thought I had a very good feel for where the EV came from, which I think comes from playing a lot of hands and pattern recognition, for the most part.

– As someone who knows the names but is not so enlightened on these fellows, I'm curious your thoughts on what makes these various guys great players. Start with Barrakat. Barak Wisbrod?

Yeah. I mean, he obviously has a lot of experience from the biggest stakes online and he worked his way up. He plays a bunch of tournaments and I think he's a phenomenal poker player.
Also, from when I've talked to him, I can imagine he's very disciplined and hardworking as well, which is a very good combination when you're smart and hardworking and dedicated to something. I think he's also one of the guys who genuinely enjoys it.
All I can say about him is that he's obviously proved himself to be a very good poker player, especially in the cash game world.

– How about Dejean Kalajurgevic?

I haven't played so much with since I was playing in the $5/$10 and $10/$20 era, but it goes the same way about him. He's very young, I think he's like 27. Obviously very smart. I don't necessarily agree with his poker that much, but from what I've seen, the results, and the way people talk about him, he's very good.
I didn't play much with him honestly. I played a little bit in live tournaments with him maybe, but I haven't played with him in a long time on a regular basis. But I think he's also a fantastic poker player, obviously.

– DavyJones922?

Well, yeah, he's for me probably the best cash game player in the world. For me personally.
He's on a different level, man. I haven't played that much with him either. I played a little bit with him in the CoinPoker Cash Game World Championship last year, or was it this year? I don't remember. But playing pots with this guy, he is relentless, man. He will fight tooth and nail for every pot and be on your ass in every hand, and he will be playing quite well. He seems very focused when he's playing.
I rarely see him make many mistakes and I think he also has a very good understanding of how general exploits work. The way people play, he maneuvers in a way that is very, I don't know, it's very impressive, honestly.
That guy went from $2/$5 and $5/$10 to $100/$200 in six months. But he stayed at $5/$10 and $2/$5 for the longest time, like five years or something. Don't take me up on that exactly, but he elevated very quickly. He played very well, played a lot, and he's very respected in the online community for sure.

– Markus Leihkonen (Makeboifin)?

Oh yeah. Also, it goes without saying, he's probably one of the spiciest characters. He will definitely be on the freestyle streets, but he's also very competitive.
He dares to try new games and stuff and actually follow through. He's also very hardworking from what I understand. I don't know him that well, but he's a very good poker player.
I don't think he plays much poker anymore. I think he did very well for some period and now he's playing a lot of padel. But I've definitely battled a lot of heads-up with him, and yeah, he's very good. He's very good at different formats and I've heard he's very good at PLO, no-limit, both in ring and heads-up. I don't think he plays much tournament poker, but yeah, obviously a legend.

– I've heard he's a true genius.

I mean, I don't have that same impression.
I think he has a very good understanding of different player types, and he tried a lot of things before it actually started working the way it does. I think he tried and failed many times. It seems that way from his playing style, but I also think he's very hardworking, knows a lot of solver outputs, and he's very close friends with Linus. So that would make a lot of sense.

— Owen Messere (PR0DIGY)?

If I was going to rate him among these guys, he would probably be on the bottom end. Obviously a very good poker player, don't get me wrong. I just, I played a bit of heads-up with him. When you're talking about these guys, you're talking about very good players for a long time, you know.
Owen is more of a newcomer to the highest stakes and stuff. But yeah, I didn't play that much with him recently, but from what I could see, he's a very good poker player. I'm not sure if he's as good as he thinks himself, if that's allowed to say.
But I do have to appreciate one thing about him. He puts his money where his mouth is. He battles, he tries, and I think he has very decent results. So he for sure has my respect. I don't see him as an easy target or anything along those lines, but the other guys have just played a long time at high stakes.

— If you're playing in high-stakes tournaments or live cash, can you be one of the very best without being a player who's social, who speaks with VIPs and obtains the information that you kind of do when you get into a conversation?

No chance. The reason is that, as you said, sometimes you can get bored. And I definitely have my moments where I just put in my AirPods and don't speak that much. But I choose to talk a lot to people because I enjoy it. I think there are a lot of interesting people in tournaments.
I don't really play in the tournament world on an everyday basis. I don't play online tournaments, and the only tournaments I do play are mostly live. So I think it's very interesting to get all the drama, who is doing what, who is doing well.
For me it's a way of keeping the entertainment going.

— Who's got the best heads-up banter?

His style is, "Come play, idiot. Play now. I'm bored. I'm bored. Let's play."
He's probably the fastest poker player I've ever played. He's so fast, and I tend to be quite fast myself, but he's on a different level. He plays very fast. But he's also a character that I was underestimating, which I got burned for in the beginning. I got really burned against him. He put a real dent into my bankroll a couple of years ago. In a weird way he became the toughest opponent, because against most people, even these good players, I won't come in with this attitude.
But with Rui Cao it's like, okay, the guy was a pro how many years ago, and this and that. But he actually doesn't play badly.
And when you come in there with your C-game or D-game, underestimating him, he's going to be performing so well. At some point he was just exploiting me to a level I've never been exploited. It was the most insane thing. He won 30 buy-ins off me in 10 days.

— I want to talk about adjusting to chaos, playing different games, but also just variants like playing seven-deuce, playing Squid, whatever random rules kind of pop up in private games. Do you think that you are particularly skilled at that?

Well, in a way yes, in those things yes. In the way I play in private games, I'm actually lifetime down in private games, which is very surprising to most people.
But I have this weird way of trying to over-adjust, where sometimes I give too much action. At some point I realized that the only reason I get to play is because they think I'm a likable guy. Most people are not necessarily worried about how good you are at poker or this and that, but also about what value you can bring to the game.

— The funny thing for me was that my early perception of you as a poker player was, oh, this guy can't stop bluffing.

No, I've even from back to the 500 Zoom days, I've been a notorious red-line player.
I was losing blue line. But my red line, it was like my graph would go like this, which was something I thought would work well in tournaments. And you know, sometimes these cash game players come in, like, oh, all tournament players suck. I was one of them, you know, but I got humbled very fast. Luckily I got humbled very fast, and I started putting more respect into people's names.

— The next Triton is going to be Jeju coming up. Let's say the JU main, and you have to guess the top 10 ROIs in the field.

I would hope I would get half right, but I would probably get like two or three right. Regarding someone losing actually being in the top 10, I would have to be pretty far off, I would say. But like I said, there are extreme biases going around, not just from me but from every study group and good friends.
If you hypothetically ask Ponyakov who he thinks is the best player and then you go and ask Juanda, you're going to get two different lists.

— I heard those two cross-booked each other this year. Is that real?

That is real. Yeah. They are going after it. I kind of respect it though. I like this cross-book. I think it's a good one. But tell me off air who you like better on that one.

— There might be some guy who, at Jeju in particular, you mistake for a recreational player but he's actually just kind of a local regular in that scene, and you've got him as minus two ROI but he's just sick with that population.

You know, it's very funny you should say that. Some people actually genuinely think I'm a VIP.

— You played on the VIP side once, brother.

Yeah, but this was back when I was bluffing like crazy and I might have been a VIP back then. But for example in Bahamas, I played with Negreanu in the $10K mixed game or something and he asked me, "Were you on the VIP or the pro side?"
And I don't know if it's my antics or the way I talk at the table, or maybe he just thinks I play so badly. Maybe I was next to Dan Shak when they were doing the drawing for this. Dan and I were in the $50K Turbo and they're doing the drawing for the $250K in Bahamas. For every VIP he's like, "That guy's a VIP? What? That guy?"
Some of them were as VIP as it gets and Dan was just amazed. That guy's got $15 million in earnings.

— But I actually have a lot of dislike for any type of privatizing of live tournaments. I think one of the great things about them is that they are somewhat meritocratic, that there's no locking people out of tournaments.

Yeah, I mean people have different opinions on this too. For me personally, I think if they want to have one tournament like this, let them. I think it's a very good thing. Sometimes you won't get an invite. You're out of luck. But that's just how it is.
We have to create a way for them to also enjoy and have a cool experience. And if some people just want to play the invitational, that's just how it is. We can't really control it. And it's better that they play that and might play the main event and other events afterward, than they just don't show up at all. For many people, the invitational tournament is their favorite tournament.

— What about a drawing then for the pros, as opposed to a matched pairing? What about just a true drawing? I think the Super High Roller Bowl did that a couple of times.

You know, I used to have a somewhat similar mindset, but then I thought about something. If you look at other things beyond poker, let's say you're starting up a business, that's just how the world works. I get it.
It's just not necessarily fair, but as an adult, I've learned that many things are very unfair. And unfortunately, that's one of them. I think a lot of poker players are doing themselves a disservice sometimes. I've seen some pros in some Tritons, I'm not going to name names obviously, being almost cruel to some VIPs.
I'm trying to think about the longevity of the game. It's also part of our responsibility to make sure they want to come back.

— Agreed.

I did not give you a warning, but I always ask for three recommendations of any kind, so you can take your time. It can be anything. Book, movie, life advice, a city in Norway to visit.

Well, one recommendation I do have for the Triton players is the hamburger in Jeju.
I don't really have a book recommendation. I don't really read books that much to be honest. But for a movie recommendation, I'm a very big fan of Pulp Fiction.
For music, the album Watch the Throne by Jay-Z and Kanye West.
And for learning poker, GTO Wizard.

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