Artemy, one of the strongest regulars of Chinese poker, recently came out of the shadows: he started a blog on our Russian GipsyTeam and we talked to him about the present and future of this Chinese poker and the myths surrounding it.
— Hello, Artemy, welcome to the GipsyTeam! How are you?
— Hi, I'm a little nervous, to be honest! I haven't given an interview as a poker pro yet.
— Well, to be fair, I've never interviewed a Chinese poker player before.
Let's start from the beginning. I know that you came to poker not only in a super-obvious discipline, but also outrageously late. Not only that, you're also the only regular I know who managed to bypass the Hold'em stage. Tell us about your background and how you even came up with the idea to study Chinese poker.
— I have never played Hold'em, but I have been surrounded by intellectual games all my life. I played chess actively in my youth, and my rating was about 2300. Many chess players I knew tried to become poker pros, but they failed. I constantly saw them losing their bankrolls — only one had a successful poker career, and he now plays Omaha.
Otherwise, I just watched how very smart people couldn’t win anything. I came to a simple conclusion: only geniuses can succeed in this niche. What’s the point of trying if you’re doomed in advance? I never believed that I could become a poker player. And at the same time, it was always a dream: if I was 18 and someone had asked me what I wanted to become, I would have 100% answered that I wanted to be a poker pro.
— It turns out the dream came true.
— Yes, but for a long time I didn’t go for it. Chess was replaced by sports mafia, which at that time was not a popular game at all. But I really liked it, and eventually mafia brought me to poker. In 2017, my friend and I went to the tournament final in Minsk. And on the way, he showed me Chinese poker: he said, you’re a chess player, you should be able to do it. He explained the rules, and I liked it. Returning to St. Petersburg, inspired, I decided to play Chinese poker with the guys from the mafia crowd. (Editor's note: Mafia is similar to the game Werewolf)
The opponents turned out to be strong amateurs and easily beat me. And then came the evening that determined my future. I lost some money in another friendly game, the opponents were having fun, even making fun of me a little. And then, my then girlfriend came, listened to their jokes and said: "Well, never mind, Artemy will learn now and beat you all." And that same evening, returning home, I turned on the Chinese language TV.
— Just like in a movie. Underdog, antagonists, a girl…
— Yes, absolutely. And then, like in the famous rap battle about the "tweet that changed my life" — I watched Gorodetsky and Gypsy's vod, which launched my career. I absolutely loved how Sergey explains it, I was absolutely delighted. At the same time, he started streaming Chinese Poker — that's when I got seriously into it. At first, there was no goal to earn anything, I just wanted to beat the guys from the home reel. That was 2018.
How Gypsy Gave Birth to the Chinese Poker Scene—and Then Killed It
— You ended up going much further than home games. How did you learn? And why didn't anyone tell you that Chinese poker is calculated, overflowing with bots and has no future?
— My chess background helped me a lot in my studies: I knew exactly how to structure my work on the game. When a chess player studies, he studies the games of the strongest players, watches how they play openings — and tries to learn and repeat the best moves. I thought that everything should work the same way for Chinese poker. I started watching streams of Gypsy, one of the best players of that time.
He played well and explained things in an accessible way. I have all his streams saved, I have watched them 3-4 times. And somewhere I still have a folder with screenshots that I took when I didn’t understand why he put it this way and not that way. In general, Gypsy’s influence on my career cannot be overestimated. To this day, when a full house starter comes, his voice sounds in my head: “A full house is always broken.”
— This already looks like serious work on the game. Were you already aiming to become a professional?
— Interestingly, no. I had ambitions, but they were modest: I wanted to beat the limit of 10 rubles per jackpot (Around $0.13). I didn’t even think about playing higher — and here we return to Gypsy again. In general, we can confidently say that he is the most important person for the Chinese poker in the Russian-speaking community. He gave birth to this game — and to some extent, he killed it. He gave birth to the scene — because he personally brought China from the USA and got many people hooked on it, launched a small Chinese boom in Russia in the 2010s.
He killed it because he often said on streams that he was losing because his opponents were working with programs – or even bots. I and many others believed him. But the more I delved into Chinese poker, the more clearly I understood how wrong he was. In reality, almost no professionals seriously study solvers. This probably sounds crazy in 2025, but among my acquaintances there are practically no such people.
— Hold'em players are shocked by this.
— Yes, and that's why it's so surprising to constantly hear from people who know poker well that Chinese poker is dead because of solvers. This is not true at all, rather the opposite. Most professionals beat amateurs simply due to experience (and a bit of talent, probably), and they have never seen any software.
Another popular misconception is about bots. They exist, of course, but there are far fewer of them than in other disciplines. When I started playing in apps, there were more, but since then they have almost disappeared. Bots in Chinese poker are easy to spot, their playing style cannot be confused with human play. After 2-3 hands, it is already clear that you are playing with a computer.
Regulars at some point started to fight them and succeeded. At the moment, I can say with confidence that the bots have lost this war. High stakes is played exclusively by people with whom I communicate daily, everyone knows each other. And again, I can say with confidence that there is not a single person among them who would use a prompter. It is funny that many professionals do not trust the machine at all – they sincerely believe that they understand the game better than the solver. This is, of course, funny. They are trying, as they say, to overtake "Bugatti on a scooter", I wish them success!
— Is Solver really so unintuitive that it blows your mind?
— Yes. And, as in Hold'em, working with it is a very complex process. If, for example, you just started playing and bought a solver, then most likely you will not understand anything. You need to feel the lines well: sometimes you can definitely move away from the correct one in favor of a simpler one – and this will be a good game. In general, it is not enough to just buy a solver, it is important to understand how to analyze this or that type of starters.
How Covid Lockdown Launched Artemy's Career
– So, Gypsy was wrong, it turned out that it was possible to win in China, the process started. How did you move up the limits?
— I started playing on Pokerdom at the beginning of 2018. But only by the end of 2019 could I firmly say that I beat micro-limits. The lineups for 5-10 rubles per jackpot (roughly $0.05/$0.10) were quite dense. When a couple of years later I started playing in apps for 100 rubles per jackpot, the people there turned out to be weaker than on Pokerdom for 10.
But even when I started cashing out, I never even thought that I could earn money with Chinese poker. I thought that I had just found a small side job: I play and withdraw 10-20 thousand a month. I thought that was my ceiling.
– Sounds like a lead-up to some kind of Turning Point.
— Yes, and it came in 2020. Two things happened at the same time: I moved in with my girlfriend and lost all sources of income due to the pandemic. I was working as a chess coach at the time, and I had my own mafia school — everything collapsed. The question arose: what should I do, actually? And the answer came by itself when I was sent a link to one of the clubs in PPPoker. That's how I learned what apps are and immersed myself in this world.
At that time, Chinese poker with jokers appeared, and I figured it out pretty quickly. I figured out what the strategy for using jokers should be. I deposited 2,000 rubles (~$25) at the beginning of March, and by the end of the month I won a little more than 200,000 (around $2,500) – playing up to 30 rubles (~$0.40) per jackpot. People played so badly that it was impossible not to make money. At that moment, I realized that I could become a professional. Because it was obvious that, compared to everyone else, I played very well.
— The legendary renaissance of online poker in Covid.
— Yes, and then the pandemic ended, the amateurs left — and bots took their place. I had to sacrifice part of my bankroll to them, and in return I gained experience. And priceless: I watched their game and learned. And this was probably the most important stage of my professional career. Because that was when I realized how I could make progress and become a full-fledged professional.
Where Does the Edge Come From in Chinese Poker?
— Pineapple at first glance looks like a simple, intuitive and finite game. Isn't it? Where does the advantage come from?
— “There are three main reasons here, and all of them, it seems to me, should be obvious.
There is no "fold" button. That is, the amateur is obliged to play every hand. And in each hand he is obliged to make several decisions, there are no other options. And his decisions will be on average much worse than those of the regular.
Tables are usually heads-up, or at most 3-max. If in Hold'em 5 regs share one amateur, then in Chinese poker, you mostly play 1 on 1. And all the money of the fish who came to have a little fun will go to you.
The game is not very high-variance. I know from myself and my colleagues that if you select and play mostly heads-up, then 10-15 buy-ins is enough bankroll to feel comfortable. You just don't need more.
And despite these three obvious factors, people still think that Chinese poker has crazy variance. The discipline is generally shrouded in myths – you said that it is intuitive and simple. But how can the game be simple if you constantly have to make non-obvious decisions? It's like that everywhere: the more often you have to think, the greater the gap between the players. And that's why Chinese poker is the most positive discipline if you play against an amateur.
— Oh...
— Yes, of course. And this is easily confirmed by the following fact: not a single owner of a club in the application is happy with the Chinese poker reg. Because they make little rake, but win a lot. This is a game where the amateur's money flows too quickly into the hands of the regulars.
— You said that at some point you realized how you could show great progress. Can you formulate it?
— I watched how regs play at high limits. I thought that at tables starting at 100 rubles (~$1.30) per jackpot, all the seats were occupied by some gods who played every hand perfectly. And then I analyzed the bots' play and compared it with what regulars show. And I discovered that people are terribly far from the truth. The bot plays completely differently, thinks in other categories. Its play is very different from human play. And since that's the case, the conclusion was obvious: having analyzed the bot's play, I will be able to play better than the field.
I got a solver. For two years, when I was not playing high stakes yet (from the beginning of 2020 to the end of 2021), I tried to work in it every day. And when I reached high limits, I was already very well versed in theory. I quickly managed to achieve decent results. It's funny, but in the end, playing at high limits was easier for me than reguarantees at 30 or 50 rubles per jackpot (~$0.40-$0.65).
The Money in Chinese Poker
— Do you remember when exactly you started playing high stakes?
— An agent I knew wrote to me and invited me to a club with an expensive game, from ~$1.30 per jackpot. I won over $600 there right away, but the motto "there is a buy-in – there is a bankroll" quickly let me down. Over the next week, I lost both the profit and everything I deposited, and in fact, I found myself without money. And then I wrote to that same agent (who was also the owner of the club) – and asked if he wanted to give me backing. I am still surprised that I decided to do this, I am generally a rather shy person.
But he quickly agreed, gave me around $600... and in exactly 2 days I lost that too. I was horrified, imagining that I would have to return to limits of $0.10-$0.25 rubles per jackpot. But the man took my failures calmly: he gave me more money, and in the next week I won back the entire debt, and even made some extra money.
— The investment has paid off.
— Yes, so I started playing on behalf of the backer, and during our cooperation I ended up bringing him more than a million rubles (almost $13,000). I think he was happy that he took a risk and gave a guy he barely knew a chance. All this time I studied theory every day, and at some point I realized that I could play on my own. It wasn’t even that I had saved up some bankroll (I had 4-5 thousand dollars at the time), but I just realized: that’s it, I’m good enough and I can beat everyone.
And I started playing on my own for 200-300 rubles per pot, then 500. Now I play for 10 dollars.
– Well, that's it, I'm turning on Dud. How much do you earn, Artemy?
— I was waiting for this question! I'll put it this way: I talk to colleagues and imagine the mathematical expectation of the regs at my limits. Playing from $5 to $10 per jackpot, regulars earn from $100,000 per year. For 2024, all the regs I talk to have added six figures. This year is going even better for me, or rather, not for me, but for us — my wife Lisa also plays.
Lisa's Game
– How did this happen, Artemy?
— When the pandemic started, for the first month and a half she just watched me play. And then, in the middle of some hand, she says over my shoulder: "Let's play like this?" And I see – really, a good move. Then it happened again... In fact, I didn't even teach her. I just watched and figured it out.
After 2 months of my active play in the apps, she timidly said that she was ready to try it herself. I gave her 3,000 rubles (almost $40) and sent her to play with jokers in Brazilian clubs. She started playing – and since then she has not made any deposits, she began to win very quickly. By 2023, her income from poker was equal to the salary she received at the factory.
It became clear that she could quit, but this decision was not easy for her. After all, she had a stable salary, and it was not very clear to her parents what to tell her. They expected her, a top-diploma graduate, to become a "big person at the plant." It was stressful for her. But I said that even if nothing worked out, we would still be fine.
Lisa quit and quickly began earning a completely different amount of money – and soon began playing high stakes with me. Now I can say with confidence that she is one of the strongest players in Chinese poker.
How Artemy Became a Backer
— It's not only Lisa who plays for you, is it? Recently someone in our forum told the story of quitting Russian Railways and becoming your padawan.
— Yes, and backing appeared in my life spontaneously. It was a little over a year ago: I saw that a player was looking for financial support on Pokerdom (a Russian poker room). And I had been reading his diary for many years and knew that he was a good, solid mid-limit player. And at first I just wanted to buy a share from him, and then I thought that I could offer to play in mobile apps. I wrote to him, he quickly agreed. Soon we were lucky enough to get into the same Asian union — and in just a few months, from 50 rubles per jackpot (we started with this limit), Stirlitz soared to playing for $6 per jackpot.
Of course, there were streaks, and the make-up reached decent amounts. At first, Alexey lacked theoretical training to play at such limits. But I was not worried, because I followed a simple rule: you can make a strong player out of an average one, but you cannot make an honest one out of a dishonest person. So when it comes to applications where a player can cheat you at any time, the most important thing is personal qualities. In this regard, there were never any problems with Stirlitz. I am very glad that he took a risk, quit his job and became a professional player.
The story with another player, Plumber, was different. At some point I saw him discussing a hand on his blog – and I liked the way he thought. He also eventually quit his job and became a professional. Over the past year, both have shown decent results, winning a good five-digits in Chinese poker.
But backing is, of course, not as easy as it seems at first glance. We are constantly practicing, and also, when people play for you, you must always remember that at this time you are for them – well, like a second father, like an older brother. A person who will always support, will not break off relations because of some mistakes. On the contrary, you need to support, and then everything will come back to you a hundredfold.
In general, in a sense, the players who play for you are like part of the family. You have to know how they feel, what is happening at home, who they play with. Also a large amount of work, in general. And the main thing is that they should feel that they will not be abandoned. That even if they play poorly, the backer will not turn away and send them back to the factory.
Portrait of a Chinese Poker Amateur
— You had a blog post in which I recognized myself. You wrote : “An amateur in Chinese poker is an intellectual gambling addict. That is, a person who is interested in playing chess with an element of randomness.” Can you elaborate on this thought?
— Yes, I really think that Chinese poker and chess have a lot in common. You also need to start from your opponent's play, calculate several moves ahead. You need to understand for what purpose you put which card where. In short, such simplified chess with elements of dispersion.
And amateurs come to Chinese poker because they like a complex intellectual game. And that means these are people who can think. After all, if he is a fish at the table, it does not mean that he is a fish in life. He is simply ready to pay for the process of intellectual battle.
And one more thing: many are sure that their game is close to ideal, when it is absolutely not so. All negative sessions such opponents write off to bad luck, dispersion. And they continue to play with you, because they are sure that they are fine. And they have no reference point to check their strategy (and the strategy of the opponent).
So I believe that the game will not go away. Amateurs will still want to play, some for decent money. And this is again the advantage of the Chinese poker. Yes, we do not have such a large pool of people as in Hold'em and Omaha, but the competition is lower. New players have not appeared at high stakes for a very long time, and all the old ones work very little on the game. So the overall level is far from ideal, to put it mildly.
Does Chinese Poker Have a Future?
— If someone had told me in 2020 that they wanted to study Chinese poker, I would have thought they were crazy. That general opinion hasn’t changed even now. How do you assess the game’s prospects, what problems do you see?
— Let's start with what we have now. Pokerdom hasn't had a good game for a long time — the lineups are tight, the rake is high. You could say that Chinese poker is dead there. And there aren't many alternatives — basically, they're just apps. And there's a ton of games there: if you're an amateur, you just ask the agent where to play Chinese poker, and you'll immediately get a bunch of options. The game will always find you at any limit, at any time.
But if you are a professional, you have big problems. You are the main enemy of the clubs, because you win money from an amateur faster than your colleagues in Hold'em or Omaha. And at the same time you pay catastrophically little commission. So the practice is simple, especially in Asian unions: they simply block players in Chinese poker from the countries like Russia and Ukraine.
I recently went to Vietnam specifically to play with a local IP. I bought a local SIM card, registered an account as a Vietnamese, and still lasted exactly 3 days. I was simply removed from the club for playing and winning in Chinese poker. So the main problem for regulars is not even the small amount of play, but the fact that where there is a game, you are not welcome.
— Is everything lost?
— Not necessarily. If we talk about the future, I would assume that the future is not in apps, but in poker rooms. For example, VangPoker introduced a joker option from the start, and an influx of new players immediately began. I believe in Phenom Poker — I hope they add Chinese poker. Limit games have taken root there, which means we can do the same. I think the future of pineapple lives in new poker rooms.
