– So today on the show, we’ve got a very special guest with us: a poker legend, Poker Hall of Famer, ten-time World Series of Poker bracelet winner. World Poker Tour title holder, EPT title holder, triple crown winner. Basically every title that exists, he has. High roller extraordinaire.
Welcome to the show, Erik Seidel.
– That’s a very generous intro!
– And, of course, Eric’s greatest contribution to poker is that he taught me how to play. We’re going to talk a lot of poker and risk and all of that, but why don’t we start by going back to the beginning—to little Erik growing up. How did your interest in games and in poker even originate? Was it something that started young or did it come later?
– Yeah, I started playing backgammon when I was in high school, and that led me to a place called the Game Room, which was on the Upper West Side. Eventually, I ended up at the Mayfair, which was a well-known backgammon and bridge club in those days. I played backgammon there for years, and a poker game developed in the Mayfair.
At the time, they didn’t allow any pros in, which was very helpful to me because I was terrible. So I got to play with other people who were also terrible. And slowly poker just started to take over the Mayfair and eventually it became a poker club.
– Eric, so you kind of played games professionally in the sense that they paid the bills, but then you had a detour to Wall Street, which is arguably an even bigger gamble than poker. Talk a little bit about how your background in games prepared you for that, and how you transitioned back to poker full-time.
– I do think it was a natural transition to go from playing games to Wall Street. And you see a lot of poker players now going that direction. But while I was working on Wall Street, I was also flying out to play cash games in Vegas.
I didn’t like being on Wall Street. I didn’t like having to wear a tie, just standing there. There’s a competitiveness and pettiness there I didn’t enjoy. Trading on the floor, people fighting for ones and twos—it was kind of an ugly environment. To be rewarded trading options on the floor, you really needed to be a dick, you know, and try to screw people over. That’s what people were doing to me, and it didn’t feel good.
– To our listeners, poker might sound cutthroat, but there’s camaraderie among players most of the time. Erik, you’ve played in some of the biggest and most famous games of all time. Has that camaraderie lessened over the years as the game grew?
– I mean, it was fine because I knew enough people. The nice thing about poker then was that all the games were open. That was part of the law—you got to play if you wanted to. Now there are more private games in Vegas, but back then everything was open.
It was competitive, but it was never unfriendly. It could be exhausting, but I also really enjoyed the environment. I liked rooting for friends and things like that.
– In terms of thinking about decision-making and risk-taking in high-stakes situations, under bright lights with everyone watching—these days everything is streamed, so people know exactly how you’re making decisions—how do you deal with that? How do you keep executing at a high level after playing for multiple days, when you’re tired and the payouts are huge?
– If you’re playing a tournament, one of the nice things is that the further you go, the more that’s at stake. And I think that’s helpful because now you’re rewarded for paying attention and bringing focus. Sometimes I have to remind myself to get back to being present and watching the action, but as you get closer to a final table or a win, there’s just more at stake and it becomes more interesting.
– But Erik, how do you stay sharp? Let’s say you’re having a mediocre World Series and then finally, after six weeks, you barrel through a tournament, a big event. You’re the chip leader heading into day four. What’s your routine during the series to pace yourself, stay sharp, and handle it all?
– Well, I mean, at the World Series, it’s really just playing, eating, and sleeping. There aren’t really routines beyond that. You just have to avoid distractions. It’s funny because every year it comes around and you think, ‘Oh good, so-and-so is going to be in town, hopefully I’ll get to have dinner with them.’ And it’s always a mistake to think that way because it’s such an all-immersive thing. If you’re not playing, you’re recovering, and every day is like that for the whole World Series—six or seven weeks.
Maria’s smart because she takes a few days off and goes on a mini vacation. I think that really helps.
– I always do that before the Main Event. It really helps clear my mind and gets me out of any funk I might be in. That’s very useful.
– And one of the things about my approach to poker is that I have a no suffering rule. If I wake up and I’m tired, I just won’t play. I don’t want to be unhappy at the table. Especially at the World Series, where there are so many events every day, you have to be very conscious of what kind of energy you can bring.
– No suffering rule. That’s amazing. I think we should all implement that in life, right? If you wake up and you know it’s going to be suffering, just say no. Are you trying to bracelet-max? Are you trying to compete with Phil Hellmuth?
– No, I’m not one of those guys. I don’t play as many tournaments as the guys who are bracelet hunting. I feel like I have enough bracelets. I don’t need to chase them anymore. And it’s also one of those things where if you win one, it’s some kind of mini miracle. I don’t like to think that way. I just want to play.
For instance, this summer there are some cool tournaments at the Wynn, and I’ll be playing those, even though they’re not bracelet events. It’s just nice to play at the Wynn and they run good tournaments.
– Erik, was there a moment when you realized poker had changed? Maybe during the Moneymaker boom, or when more Europeans started flooding in? What were the inflection points for you?
– Well, the main one really is computers coming into the game. That’s changed everything over the last, I don’t know, eight years. It’s made things much tougher. I have a friend who jokes that I’ve been saying the game is too tough for thirty years and that I should stop.
But really, more recently, computers have made it a much greater challenge. It’s more difficult for me to play now, but it’s also more interesting. It’s fun to play against these computer guys and see how much the game has evolved. I enjoy being part of that and trying to figure things out in this more modern, computerized world.
– Yeah, and you’re still succeeding. At EPT Monte Carlo, you came third in one of the high rollers. You’ve won several bracelets in the last few years. Clearly, you’re still competing at a high level. How do you prepare not just for the World Series but for series in general? Do you work with solvers? What does your study routine look like, and has it changed significantly over the years?
– Yeah, it’s definitely changed a lot. It used to be you didn’t really have to do anything. You just showed up and played, which was really nice. Nobody studied back then. There were some books, but they weren’t that relevant to playing.
It was nice when you could just show up and play. Now there are people completely immersed—studying and playing all the time—and that creates an extra challenge to go up against.
– I remember watching an old PokerGO archive from 1988, when you finished second to Johnny Chan. At the final table, before heads-up, you had pocket fours and just ripped it in after a raise and a call. Nobody played like that back then. Today we know it can be a good bluff, but then it was revolutionary.
– I was very focused on reads. And I was pretty reckless. In ’88, I didn’t really know what I was doing, but I remember how exciting it was. I was getting reads from players I’d never seen before—reads I wasn’t picking up back in New York. It felt amazing to realize, ‘Wow, I can play with these people.’ I had no experience outside New York, and suddenly I was discovering all these things as I went along.
– When you find yourself at a table at the World Series, you are immediately surrounded by journalists. You are a legend, and the people sitting next to you know it. Do you feel that this makes it harder for them to play against you? How do you adjust to amateurs and professionals?
– I try to approach each opponent individually. However, I don’t think my reputation helps me in any way. It’s not that people refuse to play certain hands against me because of my fame. Quite the contrary, they are more willing to jump into pots so that they can have something to talk about later. And they will bluff me more often because it’s fun.
– Back then, were the reads and tells more obvious?
– Yeah, people were less concerned about timing and patterns. Everyone was playing by the seat of their pants. So there were more opportunities. And when you don’t know what you’re doing, you can push things pretty far.
– In some ways, you’ve become Johnny Chan in Rounders, where Matt Damon just wants to bluff him.
– I think that exists. I’ve seen players try to make moves just for the story. Sometimes it raises the risk that someone’s going to bluff you, especially if it’s televised. Nobody wants to be seen getting bluffed on TV, but if they bluff you on TV, they get to go home a hero.
– How much impact did losing that heads-up match to Johnny Chan have on you?
– That’s still one of my favorite tournaments. It was the very beginning of my career, and I had no idea how I’d do at the World Series. Some people encouraged me to go, but I had no confidence. To go through four days, outplay people, make creative plays, and realize I could compete—that was amazing. Losing wasn’t a big deal. I’ve always had great feelings about that tournament.
–If you could give one piece of advice to new or developing players?
– Pay attention. People are teaching you how to beat them if you watch their patterns closely enough. Just pay attention.
– When you coached Maria, when did you know she had potential?
– Maria was exciting because she came from nowhere—she didn’t even know how many cards were in a deck. But she worked incredibly hard, stayed open-minded, and put in the effort. That’s the key to her success. It’s thrilling to see she’s still playing and doing so well.
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